Secular Charlotte Mason

My kids are driving me nuts with their lack of responsibility.  Especially the 14 and 11 yos.  Any suggestions?!?!  I am a naturally responsible person (just ask my mother) and I have come to the conclusion that I simply do not know *how* to teach my kids responsibility because no one had to teach it to me. Arg.

I've viewed this post so many times, hoping I could offer  you some insight.  But what do I know?  My oldest is 5, so our ideas of responsibility are probably far off. 

What kind of responsibility are you talking about?  Housework, schoolwork, personal responsibility to others? 

Honestly I could list out a dozen particulars but the underlying issues of all those particulars are: doing the daily chores and schoolwork without constant reminders throughout the day and for my eldest to be able to keep track of and actually follow his homework schedule.  The former is most important for my 11 and 8 yos since they are home the most and the latter is most important for my 14 yo son since he is taking more and more outside classes that have homework. With the 14 yo he actually really does try to do the right thing 6 days out of 7 but unfortunately for him he has my procrastination tendencies combined with learning issues, which wreck havic with his ability to initiate good  time management skills. I must also confess that I stink at things like token economies and reward systems like you guys were discussing under one of the other habits topics--probably because my mom never had to use them with me and when I stayed on my aunt and uncle's farm every summer the responsibilities were fewer and clearer (ie. it was simply understood that you fed the animals before you fed yourself because they were the family's only source of income). My childhood was so very different from my kids' that I have a really hard time transferring some of those methods to our much more urban lifestyle. My husband has an easier time of it since his childhood was more like theirs but he was never really taught to be responsible in the way I am expecting my kids to be responsible.

Gina, my experience is that at 8-14, a sense of responsibility hasn't developed yet for most kids.  Or rather the sense that it matters may be there, but unless the habits have eben ingrained from a VERY youn g age, the mind is racing so fast that things they meant to do, go undone as they follow the latest mental or emotional will-o-the wisp.

One thing you might conmsider for your 14 year old is to provde a place (like a cork board?) where once he puts the assignment o9n it, it won't disappear under stacks and where it won't get moved to make room for something else. 

Do the kids use a computer?  I have found that a calendar reminder popping up on the screen has helped my husband (who also wasn't raised with the habit of responsibility) to stay sort of top of things...

With Jack, who is admitedly only 6, I find that making computer time contingent on finishing what he's responsible for is helpful.  When he asks to use the computer, I ask about specific chores and we check together.  Of course, I aso verbalize as I sit down at my computer about what I need to do and how long I have to work on this project before I move on to the next.

But I would reassure you that even kids who aren't born with a strong Saturnian streak can eventually learn to be responsible...even if they don't seem to be getting it while you're watching. 

I am going to try to avoid rewards also.  I do like natural and logical consequences but this is tricky with homework IMO. The natural consequence is to be uneducated if they don't do it... I can't let my kids teeth rot or let them get hit by a car and I can't let them be uneducated. Not much help, I know.  Maybe smaller short term goals?

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The other night I read Ham the story about the Hen that sowed the wheat and no one wanted to help until it was time to eat.  She said to the animals that did not help, "No you will not, my chicks will help me eat."  Ham asked why they couldn't have some and I said they didn't help.  He says to me, "I don't help you but you let me eat."  I said, "You are my chick."  He said "but I don't help you."  He said this three or four times.  I didn't know what to say other than "You are my chick."  I've been thinking about this the last few days and I think he meant that he's old enough to help more...  I'm hoping this will be a good way to introduce some more responsibility.  I hope you find some teachable moment(s) too.

Hmm.  I must have been a somewhat unusual child.  I had a very high sense of responsibility by the time I was 10 and I find it quite frustrating that my kids don't. As I reorganize the house I am going to give each child a specific space for their current schoolwork, daily schedule and so on.  I'm hoping that having individual "centers" will help make my expectations more clear which should help them be more responsible and independent. Part of  my frustration is their lack of responsibility toward our animals since they all are in charge of a species.  

You mentioned computers.  In regards to the kids I find them more hinderance then help so I am removing their computer access for the next month at least---it just eats up way too much of their time and when I have a migraine (common in the heat) I am not able to supervise their time on it enough.  So, it's just going away in hopes of breaking some bad habits, plus they rarely use the computer for educational purposes. Drakon will need some access for running my ebay account but he is working rather hard at being more responsible. I think once I have his calendar of deadlines and reminders set up he will be mostly on track. I sure wish I had discovered CM way back when we first began this adventure and that I had focused on habits before anything else!!! All those Mothering articles about just letting your young kids be are dead wrong lol. 

Yep Cori, 

I'd jump on that while he is eager to be more helpful.  I should have taken better advantage of those opportunities. Love the story though--it's just too cute. 

Cori at 09:13AM on Jun 30, 2009

I am going to try to avoid rewards also.  I do like natural and logical consequences but this is tricky with homework IMO. The natural consequence is to be uneducated if they don't do it... I can't let my kids teeth rot or let them get hit by a car and I can't let them be uneducated. Not much help, I know.  Maybe smaller short term goals?

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The other night I read Ham the story about the Hen that sowed the wheat and no one wanted to help until it was time to eat.  She said to the animals that did not help, "No you will not, my chicks will help me eat."  Ham asked why they couldn't have some and I said they didn't help.  He says to me, "I don't help you but you let me eat."  I said, "You are my chick."  He said "but I don't help you."  He said this three or four times.  I didn't know what to say other than "You are my chick."  I've been thinking about this the last few days and I think he meant that he's old enough to help more...  I'm hoping this will be a good way to introduce some more responsibility.  I hope you find some teachable moment(s) too.

I'm a big natural/logical consequences fan myself and I do think it work for homework.  I think of my son's homework as his job.  So if Mom and Dad didn't do their job, they would not have money to pay for the house and such.  Since we do have money and it get's shared amoung us then it seems logical that unless he did his job, then he shouldn't get the share of the money.  I apply this to all household responsiblities and always in the guise "it's part of being in our family."   I think key to this is I was framing it in this way from the very beginning, like back in toddlerhood!   So I never really have too many problems with the schoolwork.  Sometimes I do, but overall he is good about getting things done. 

What I struggle with is him doing the work without a reminder.  He's not there yet.  I try to incorporate it into the dinner conversation as a regular topic.  "How was your work day" type thing.  But always he needs a reminder.

He always needs the reminder for the animal care, which is very frustrating, but at least he doesn't complain anymore.  Of course, he knows I have people I can give the dog away to.....  maybe you need people like that Gina!

"I think key to this is I was framing it in this way from the very beginning, like back in toddlerhood!"

You know Anna, I think that is a BIG key!!!  I was WAY too easy on my kids when they were younger and now they resent having higher expectations; esp. the youngest one. Just so you know the reminders seem to be needed until they are teens.  My teen does require considerably less verbal reminding than the younger girls. I'm also learning that, like schoolwork, I am having to adapt their reminder system to match their thinking patterns/learning styles.  What works for Drakon did not work for Tide at all.  And nothing seems to work with KodyGirl--maybe because she is 8 and 8 yo tend to be negative little people. I'm also beginning to wonder whether some of the difference between my kids and myself is the only child thing.  As an only child I KNEW that I had to do my tasks because there were no siblings to try and pawn them off on and if the tasks weren't done I knew that *I* would be in trouble for sure since my mum had no one else to "blame".   I have three kids and they often try to pass the buck or negotiate with a sibling to switch jobs--drives me crazy but my hubby says he and his sisters were like that and I know my cousins all were. Somedays I wish I could just meld them all into one person. Sure would make my life a bit easier lol. 

"All those Mothering articles about just letting your young kids be are dead wrong lol" ~from Gina's reply on 6/30

Oh, boy, do I hear you!  File in the "if only I'd known" category, along with unschooling math for far too long.

I love this thread, as responsibility is something my three struggle with, as well.  I feel like I am the keeper of everything--just this year did I make the older two (11.5 and in charge of their own library lists for the town's summer reading program.  Guess who lost his after about two days?  Yep, the rising 6th grader.  We eventually found it after hunting together for a while.  Just yesterday I went out and bought each child his or her own (differently colored) plastic clipboard to help keep track of said lists, and then to be used for something else once we are "back to school" (I'm thinking copywork).

I tried instituting the homeschooling cube idea this past year, with the idea that everything they needed (pencils--colored and non, grips, sharpener, paper, ruler, etc.) was in each child's (differently colored) storage cube, and that worked for a little while.  The cubes are next to me as I sit at the computer and I just leaned over and pulled the oldest's out, and here's what was in there: several copies of "science in the news" (free pdf from Science A-Z-- http://www.learningpage.com ), a brochure from a museum, a colored silk (from Waldorf days in his early childhood), and old Anakin Skywalker action figure with no lightsaber, calligraphy pens (okay, these can stay), a fabric folder of markers (ditto), an empty clear hinged plastic box, a pseudo-leather pouch with a skull-and-crossbones on it (also empty), two pencil boxes each with a half dozen colored or regular pencils and a rubber band or two, a much doodled-upon map of the US on which he marked where the valentines from our hs exchange came from, a crayon rubbing of the sole of his sneaker (??), an index card with a Roman camp guard he drew on it, a pad of blank manuscript paper (that is his four-year-old brother's), a much doodled upon list of a day's assignments from back in the fall, a very neat handwriting sheet (should have framed it), also from last fall, a pentomino puzzle book, a set of pentominoes, The Practical Guide to Calligraphy, and, in the very bottom of the cube, three pencils (one with a much missed grip), a string of beads, an earth squishy ball, and a 3-D puzzle of an astronaut.  Maybe the cubes were too big.  

I'm in the process of trying to figure out how to organize our small space a little better in order to have "a place for everything, " so that responsibility is easier for my kids to take upon themselves.

And this idea (above) probably stems from the old AP idea of changing the environment (back then--making a room toddler-safe) to meet the needs of the child, which brings us right back to Mothering magazine. . .

You know the interesting thing is this site gets more traffic from the Mothering forum than any of the CM or homeschooling website links or forums.  Interesting don't you think. My 12 yo daughter and I were just talking about how their lack of responsibility and lack of initiative (it's really the latter that drives me crazy) adds to my stress.  My kids *hate* seeing me stressed and are quite kind to me when I am but they totally don't see how their behavior contributes to it. For organizational purposes I love those clear over the door shoe holders.  The hold all sorts of office supplies and make it easier for the kids to put stuff away.  My husband hates how they look though since I hang them off our living room curtain rods (because with my kids and myself out of sight is out of mind).

Glad you are enjoying this thread. Hopefully some others will post but this is the quiet time of year for forums and yahoo groups.

This is such an awesome topic-- how did I miss reading it all this time? I need to re-read it ; ) LOL.. More later, D

Gina, I think you just solved the mystery of Jack!  <laugh>

Jack is the easiest, most responsible child I have ever known.  He is also the only (effectively) "only" child I have raised.  So *that* is how we ended up with the child everyone expects to have when they decide to be parents!  (Some people do decide, right?)

Yes, Mothering and AP are wrong about just letting a child be -- and yet, not really.  I am an avid AP mother, but I provided a lot of guidance to Jack.  My thought is that no child wants to do the wrong thing, but unless we make what we expect from them very clear, they can't know what the right thing is.  No child wants to be disliked by other people, but if we don'y teach them to use good manners, they most likely will be disliked by other people (and occasionally by us!) So my method of AP was really more CM than I ever knew. 

Of course, I came to this style of parenting through having tried more 'traditional" AP.  It went very badly in the teen years.